My mare is a palomino out of a sorrel mare and sired by a palomino stallion. I want to begin a breeding program for buckskins and palominos and I am looking to breed my first buckskin. Would I be correct in saying that I need to breed to a homozygous for the black gene stallion? In looking for this, i only find paints that are homozygous for the black gene. I understand that this throws paint into the possibity mix. What should i really do and look for in a stallion if i want a buckskin foal?
I really want to start a buckskin line with my palimino mare. HELP?
Hello!
I agree with everyone who said don't breed for color alone! But, the best thing to do is go with a bay or black that is NOT homozygous for the black gene. I know a lot of people are going to disagree with me, but I am very well aware of homozygous black stallions and what they are capable of producing. I personally have a buckskin mare out of a palomino mare and by a bay stallion. We also have a black filly out of a palomino mare and by a HOMOZYGOUS black stallion.. She came out smokey black... The chances of you getting a black or bay out of your mare when breeding to a homozygous black stallion is higher than getting a buckskin or grulla. My suggestion is to take a look at the bay stallion "Zhip". He has an incredible pedigree and throws buckskin babies frequently from what I have seen. (He is who my mare is by, and she is wonderful!). You can find him at www.beboquarterhorses.com
Good luck and I hope you have a beautiful healthy baby!!!
Reply:If you don't have quality horses, don't breed. they need to be registered, excellent conformation, and show winners to be worth breeding. There are WAY too many unwanted horses as it is, I advise you not to breed your own if you don't have high quality horses.
Reply:Look at the stallion's progeny and see what percentage of his colts are buckskins. Normally a breeder will answer all of your questions and even have pics of the offspring. Hope this helps!
Reply:IDK ask the vet maybe or....i agree with kelly26
Reply:Well God knows there aren't enough people breeding primarily for color now that the genetics are understood. (I'm being sarcastic, for the uninitiated)
Like a parade of ugly women in expensive clothes, the results can be hideous.
So you want a foal out of your mare. That's neither here nor there, do what you want, you will anyway. It's the whole "line" idea that trips my trigger. Where do you live that you don't see the condition of the horse market?
If you are serious about this, you're not hedging your bet very well. Your mare has only one dilute gene to pass. Unless you breed her to a homozygous black/agouti perlino stallion, there is no guarantee you're going to get a diluted color, and then if she throws her dilute, you'll get perlino. Not a buckskin.
A bay genetically is a black with the black limited to mane, tail and points by the agouti gene. A buckskin is a bay diluted by the dilute gene. A perlino is a double-diluted bay.
Your palomino is a diluted red. No black to throw. It's all on the stallion.
If you want to breed buckskins, you should be breeding solid black mares to a perlino who is homozygous agouti. And for goodness sakes, he should have more going for him than a set of testicles and a pretty color.
Kelly, you miss the point. There are lots of registered horses with Doc in their lineage ending up on somebody's plate. The horse market is glutted, and we are at a point where only the BEST of the BEST should be bred. "Crazy pedigree" is not an attribute indicative of well bred stock. It sounds like the result of a bunch of amateurish breedings. Don't get me wrong, it might have produced a lovely mare, but even nice looking, solid horses aren't selling well. Only the top of the market is selling well.
Creating a "line" of decent, average horses is not an ethical thing to do at this time, and too damn many people focus on color without looking at the rest of the package.
EDIT:
In reply to your message to me:
"Message: that was an extremely rude response to my postage about breeding my mare. you have no right to make the comments you did about her breeding and how well she or anything would do on the market. im not out there to make amazing sales and the BEST of everything. i just want some color in my barn and a nice lot of good horses. if i sell a few, great, if not, oh well. horses are a passion for me and a hobby. unlike most and apparently you, im not in it for the money! it was an honest question for i have never bred. im not even old enough to own the horse, let alone start my own stable. it was a family agreement to look into it and get a good start on it before i go to college.
its people like you that drove me to want to start this line! ya the market has gone to crap but you know y? its cuz people like you are all about having the best out there and getting every cent out of the horses they can. when everyone is breeding to impress people like you, apples compared to apples is all a matter of preferrence. my preferrance is buckskin. it has been my dream to own a buckskin since a knew what it was. DONT shoot me down for that. i hope you will be more concious of peoples property and feelings and i hope you dont assume past what you know because that is indeed what you did here. "
RESPONSE: Where do I begin? I spend nearly $8000 a year for my horses' care. I don't breed or sell anything, so your idea of my being in it for the money is crap. I make NOTHING off them. The reason I don't breed is because of overpopulation. This isn't a $$ issue, but an ethical one.
Second, facts are what they are. Genetically you have no guarantee of a buckskin out of your Palomino mare. So if your dream of a buckskin is the point of breeding, how many average, red, black, or bay foals are you going to crank out and possibly never get one?
You miss the point. There are lots of nice, colored foals going through sales across the country for a fraction of what it costs to breed one. I just bought a coming 3 year old buckskin mare of my choice lineage who is awesome for $500. I know what she looks like, I know how she moves, I know she has the personality I have always dreamed of...she is the cupcake of the herd. I also know the person I bought her from paid nearly $3000 for her as a weanling just over two years ago. I was her last chance before the sale barn after months of marketing this cute, colored mare.
Think about it!! Stud fees. Vet care. IgG. And if it's rude to point out the errors in your plans genetically, not to mention ethically, so be it. I don't care.
I care more about what happens to the foals people "just have to have" when the cute has worn off, when you go off to college, when tragedy strikes and suddenly they "must find homes." Stay in the horses for a few years as an adult, with all the adult responsibilites, and I bet you'll cringe at your idea.
The market has gone to crap because of too many people breeding too many average horses...pay attention in econ class. You might learn something about supply and demand.
You're a minor? Big deal. That is no excuse to be irresponsible.
Reply:Look for a stallion that is homozygus for the black gene. Not just any homozgus. Look for black horses then go thru and find the ones that are homozygus for black.
Palomina... look for a stud bay, sorrel, chestnut that carries the cream gene if you breed pal to pal you will blow out the color and get a creamello. don't forget about your conformation and sensability.
I would rather have a green horse with purple poka-dots as long as they can perform and function!!!
What breed of horses are you looking for I may be able to help you. I know of some really great stallions that carry the cream gene. And what disipline are you going towards. Feel free to email me and I can send some pic of a few.
Reply:hnmmm first is ur palomino registered and what breed of yours. if your looking at breeding it be more worth while to have reigstered horses.
Also i was reading bout this the other day. i will try find you site that has all the lists and possible outsomes. it explains all the genetivs about breeding pallys and buckskins. i'll find it and get back to u.
EDIT** http://www.equinecolor.com/cream.html
http://www.equinecolor.com/charts.html
http://www.apha.com.au/pages/Colours.htm
http://www.horse-genetics.com/buckskin-h...
also would be good idea to get the genetics of ouy horse checked to see which genes are dominate and recessive. this way you will have a better understanding at what you are likely to foal.
hope this helps.
EDIT*** By the way person that told her not to breed. Her horse has good bloodlines, i know that for a fact as my colt has docs in him. and i have heard of the others. research your answers before you go critising people.
Reply:Oh if that wasn't the stupidiest response I have seen in a long time to someones email........
cnsdubie isn't out there breeding hun, shes out there taking in the crap that people like you put out. Your the one that is causing the overload in the market, 'oh if i sell one great, if not, oh well' , what a stupid idiotic statement. How about this for a no brainer, 'DONT BREED', you only want to 'experiment for color, what a joke.
Theres a reason ppl shouldn't have sterile horses, your the poster child for it.
Next time you want to rant and rave in someones email... do it elsewhere, we have heard too much breeding 'oh but shes so pretty *mare*' junk to make us nauseous.
red dot
Reply:i have some horses with bloodlines that some people would kill for (doc,zippo,go man go,johnny que)and every one is gelded for a reason.and the last foal i had on the place was a clydesdale arabian cross and wasnt planned,my 18.3 hand stud clyde went thru three 2x12 wood corrals to get to her that was four years ago at the start of the drought and as soon as she was weened i found new homes for them (she is now in training for dressage and doing great and looks beautiful)the clyde was gelded and sold and the mares i had were sold leaving me with the horses i just need for working .Cns and Biscut have a valid point ! horse conformation and color genetics takes years and years to learn and even then they are not 100% and i have bought many horses from people who have tried to do what you want to do and it didnt work out the way they wanted so they keep breeding and pushing out foals that they cant sell.how many times have you been walking around and see a great looking couple with a kid that would scare the paint off a barn.i was told a long time ago by people who i respect that " you only breed what you need".you are young and dont have real world experiance but i will bet you a hundred to one there is a foal already out there that is already exactly what you want and will cost a lot less than trying to breed one yourself.
Reply:I'm sorry and go ahead and thumb me down but CNSdubie poses a very very valid point. The market it crap right now and genetics are funny to figure out. If you are a minor then wait until collge is through before persuing this dream of yours. I'm by no means saying don't do it period BUT if you love horses as you say you do then please just wait a few years go to college take an animal science with a horse science emphasis course and learn more about it before plunging headlong into it. I rasie foals and it is a HUGE commitment. Usually I have 4-5 good weel bred colts every year and get roughly 3500 for them at weaning age. Last year I had 2 and only was able to sell them for 750.00 and their sire was a world champ and the dam an aqha reserve champ. Not to mention both were buckskins which are indeed a hot commodity right now. I'm not in it for the money I'm in it for breeding of better stock. I don't breed mares that aren't correct in conformation I don't breed to flawed stallions I spend hours researching EVERYTHING about each mare and stud combo before I make my final decision. This year I have only one foal hitting the ground b/c I chose as a breeder not to breed any mares b/c of the overpopulation of horses and how the market was. The foal hittin the ground is out of my "daughter" (say that b/c I helped deliver her as a foal) and it will NEVER be sold. Just thoroughly think it through and really take some classes on it. You may wind up with a whole new opinion
Reply:You've got a couple options....
If you breed to a bay or black that is homozygous for the black, then you will get a bay or black baby...you have a 50% chance of getting the cream gene from your mare, so that means, 50% of those babies will have it, giving you the buckskin (or smokey black).
If you bred your mare to a perlino stallion (double dilute buckskin basically), you will get either a palomino, buckskin, cremello, or perlino baby (depending on if he's homozgous for black or not).
Don't just breed for color, make sure you're picking a stallion with attributes you like also. Are you looking for Halter, Western Pleasure, Hunter Under Saddle, etc?
I know of an AQHA stud homozygous for black, One Hot Invitation, that is western pleasure bred.
Breeding to a palomino or buckskin will increase your chances to 75% of getting either a single or double dilute, and breeding to a double dilute (cremello or perlino) will give you a 100% chance of color.
I hope this helps, but you need to narrow down what type of showing you want to do with your offspring before I can really tell you any horses. Check out www.qhd.com (quarter horse directory) and you can look up studs by event, etc.
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