Ok so I've got a sorrel mare whom I'm breeding to a bay stallion. She had a baby last year that is chestnut, and the stud was bay also (different stud). I'm curious though, what is the chance of getting a bay foal? If it helps, my mare's dam was sorrel and her sire was black. The last stallion's dam was bay and his sire was sorrel. This time the stud has both a bay sire and dam. (I'm guessing the likely color will be sorrel/chestnut....but I'm still curious about the odds of getting a bay).
What color am i likely to get?
Do you have any information on what color foals the stallion has sired before? That would help narrow it down a lot. Also, check to see if either one of them has had any genetic tests done, if they have that will help even more. If not, here's the explanation, the simple answer is below that:)
Since your mare is sorrel, she's either A+/A+ or A+/a. This is the agouti gene; A= is dominant, and it restricts the expression eumenanin (black) to the legs, mane, tail, etc. The stud, being bay, is also either A+/A+ or A+/a. If he was a/a, he would be black. The stallion is also E+/E+ or E+/e, this is the extension gene. E+ allows eumelanin (black) to be expressed in the hair. It, too , is a dominat gene. So, since your mare is sorrel, she's e/e, which means eumelanin (black) cannot be expressed in the hair, but phaeomelanin (red) can be. This is probably the single most importnat gene that will deermine the color of the foal; if the foal is e/e it will be chestnut or sorrel. if it is E+/e it will be bay or black, depending on if it's A+/a, A+/A+, or a/a. If it's E+/e and a/a it will be black. If it's E+/e and A+/a oe A+/A+ it will be bay. So just based on the E locus, the foal has a 100% chance of being bay if the stallion is E+/E+ or a 50% chance of being bay if the stallion is E+/e. Pretty good odds, if you ask me:) Since your mare is sorrel, as opposed to chestnut, she carries the mealy gene (also known as Pangare), so the foal could be any variety of a bay-based coat, such as seal brown, mealy bay, etc. The mare may be Pa+/Pa+ or Pa+/pa. If she is Pa+/pa, as I'm thinking she is since her last foal was chestnut instead of sorrel, the foal has a 50% chance of being mealy.
There are a whole lot of other genes that come into play to modify the coat color, but basically the foal has a 50%-100% chance of being bay, depending on what gene the stallion has.
EDIT - with your added information, if the stallion has thrown sorrel foals, you most likely have a 50% chance of having a bay, 25% chance of sorrel, and 25% chance of chestnut. Just in case you don't know the difference between chestnut and sorrel (for the longest time I thought they were the same!) sorrel carries the mealy/pangare gene. hat means on a sorrel, the lwoer legs will be lighter than the body, while on a chestnut, the legs will be the same color. Here are some examples:
sorrel: http://www.krugerquarterhorses.com/tim%2... (see the very bottom of the legs are slightly lighter?)
chestnut: http://www.freewebs.com/horsesarethe_bes... (see how the legs are the same color all the way down?)
This means you might end up with a mealy bay. Mealy is so cute ;)
Mealy bay: http://www.foresthorse.com/colorfiles/ba... (lighter underbelly and face)
The info for their genetic tests you should have from when you got the test results. The stud owner should have the test results of the stallion. If you can't find the mare's info, try to remember where you got her tested, and try calling them or e-mailing to get her results again. If nothing else, try contacting someone from the AQHA and see if they have it on file. Not everything has a test available yet, so it won't telly you every possibility of color/modifiers, but it should help give a rough idea :)
Good luck!
Reply:Hmmm... I'm not really the one to answer this but wouldn't it be cool if there was a foal with a whole bunch of coats. Like a calico cat but a horse! Sorry that was really not answering the question I have my bets on a Bay but you never know until birth!
Reply:If the mare is sorrel, she's red/red. Has to throw a red.
If the bay stallion has thrown red, he has to be red/black with agouti.
So mare throws red, stallion throws red...you'll get red.
Mare throws red, stallion throws black...you'll get black or bay, depending on whether he throws his agouti as well.
Reply:Im guessing Sorrel, maybe the foal will be pigmented ^.^
Reply:Without being scientific, I have a bay stallion. I have a red mare and two red based gray mares. The red mare had a black foal, one red based gray mare had a red based gray foal and the other red based gray mare had a bay based gray foal. So three foals: black, bay, red from a bay to red breeding. There's no way to know in advance what the color will be...so waiting is part of the program. A live, healthy foal is the real goal.
Reply:Bay is dominant to black and black is dominant to chestnut. If the sire has two bay genes, he can only pass on bay. In that case your chances of a bay foal are 100%. If he only has one bay gene and he also has black or chestnut, your chances are 50% for bay and 50% for black or chestnut. Has the sire ever had a black or chestnut foal, if so he could pass on either one. I hope this is not too confusing. Colour genetics is very complicated. I am no expert, but I find it fascinating. All the best with your foals.
Reply:For a bay the following genetics are needed: (capital letters denote dominant genes, lower case recessives, and blanks represent unknowns because either would yield the color in question)
Base coat
E _
agouti
A_
Thus E_a_ yields bay and the following this gives the following possibilities.
EEAA
EEAa
EeAA
EeAa
Parents Base coat
Mare is ee base coat.
The stud is E_
Agouti
The mare is a_ (We know she has one little a because her sire was black and therefore aa. You can probably assume aa but she could have one A)
The stud is A_
Thus the mare is eea_ and the stud is E_A_
Possible combinations are
EeAa (bay)
EeA_(bay) (mares blank)
Eea_ (studs blank if A then bay, if not then black)
Ee__ (studs blank agouti and mares blank both A then bay, mare A stud a then bay, studs A mare's a then bay. both a then chestnut.
e_ Aa(studs blank at base coat, if E then black if e then chestnut)
e_a_ (studs _ basecoat and blank agouti) If E and a then black, If E and A then bay, If e and A chestnut, If e and a chestnut
e_A_ (mare's blank agouti, studs blank base coat) If E then bay.
e_ __ (studs blank base stud and mare's blank agouti) If E on stud and both agoutis are aa then black If E on stud and one of the blank agoutis are A then bay. If e from stud chestnut regardless.
Notice that it takes two genes to give a baythe Agouti and the black. The foal must have both to be a bay.
In most registries sorrel refers to a red chestnut not a mealy chestnut. If you are calling a mealy chestnut a sorrel because it is a light shade of chestnut then the mare will have the pangare gene. However it is more likely that you are referring to sorrel as in the reddish chestnut. In that case she would not have the pangare gene. Either way that would only affect the shade not the color category.
If the stud is homozygous for both black and agouti then you have a 100% chance. If the stud is homozygous for one and heterozygous for the other your chances are 50%. If the stud is heterozygous for both your chances are 25% (I am assuming that the mare is eeaa here, odds go up if she is eeAa which is her only other possibility)
Reply:This is actually a very easy one to determine.
Your mare is sorrel, which is simple recessive...so she carries two sorrel genes.
The stallion is bay, and has two bay parents...he could either carry one sorrel and one bay gene, or two bay genes. So you have two scenerios...
IF the stud is homozygous for the black, you will get a bay foal.
IF the stud is heterozygous for the black, you have a 50/50 chance of bay or sorrel.
If you know that the stud you have bred your mare to has actually thrown a sorrel baby at some point in the past, you know that he carries a sorrel gene (since its recessive)...and then you have your 50/50. If he's only ever had bay and black babies (or buckskins if he was bred to a diluted mare), then you know your baby will be bay.
I hope you like whatever you get!
casual shoes
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